China and India: Some Comparisons

China and India are the two largest countries in the world, at least by population.  I've (Bruce) spent a bit of time in each (most of June in China as readers of this blog know, and most of January, 2014 in India), and realize I have sometimes been comparing China to India while I was in Hong Kong and Guangzhou.  My knowledge of each country is still very modest, but I'll share my thoughts and comparisons about them in this last blog entry.

Some background on my time in India: I was there helping Prof. Dana Gross (a psychology professor, friend, and long-time carpool mate) with her class on poverty, health, family, women and children in India.  See the photo on the left, of our group in Chennai (Madras) at one of the colleges (Madras Christian College)which were hosting us; the two social work faculty working with us are on the left.  We later spent time in Bangalore (also in southern India, and the high-tech center of India), and Delhi (the capital in the far north).

There are some important ways in which China and India are similar.  One is simply that each is the current version of ancient cultures and civilizations, already millennia old when European cultures such as Greece and Rome were still in their infancy--and many people these two countries take pride in that heritage, regardless of the very real modern problems each country now faces.  And there are ways in which the two have influenced each other: Barbara and I were visiting Buddhist temples in China, a religion which spread from its origins in India into Southeast Asia and China and beyond, for example.

Second, each country has a huge population.  China has about 1.37 million people these days, but India is catching up and has 1.28 billion itself.  Between the two, a little more than a third of the world's people live in these two places.  Another demographic similarity is that each country has a significant "shortage" of women and girls; many of the females we would expect to see are "missing" from the population, as economic, political and cultural pressures have made males more valued and females more expendable (especially with modern medical technology that enables a family to know the sex of a pregnant woman's fetus, and to decide to abort a girl).  Each culture has, traditionally, emphasized male children (girls would have married and moved away, while boys would stay with or near their parents in farm families, and inherited the land); in China, however, the "one-child" policy has added pressure to have that baby be a boy, and in India the cost of providing a dowry to a groom's family in order to marry off one's daughter has been an added factor when a dowry (though now illegal) can be ruinous for a poor family.  The generation coming of age is one in which many men will be unable to find a woman to marry, in cultures in which family has been very important.

Third, each country became a modern nation-state in the late 1940's--China with its revolution, and India by gaining its independence from Britain's long colonial occupation.  At some point I realized that I was born (1945) before these events happened (and when the world's population was only a third what it is today!).  So these societies are both very old, and yet rather new at the same time.

Fourth, each country, but China in particular, has been rapidly changing from a largely rural, farming country to an urban one.  In both countries, millions of people move from rural areas to the fast-growing mega-cities like Guangzhou each year, reflecting changes that took centuries in earlier times (the U.S. didn't become a predominantly urban society until around World War I and the 1920 Census).  (Another more recent movement: each country is now a source of more immigration to the U.S. than is Mexico, for those who feel they have run up against the personal or economic or political limitations of the country from which they've come, at least for now.)

Fifth, rapid modernization, industrialization, and urbanization present serious problems for both China and India in the form of pollution of the air, water, and soil--particularly for China given how quickly its moved to provide economic growth (an important basis for its political legitimacy).  Even though Western industrialization and economic growth are the primary historical source of the global warming and climate change we are now facing, China and India's dependence on coal as a source of energy have now also become major sources of atmospheric CO2.  Simply breathing the air in cities like Delhi, Beijing, and Shanghai presents serious health risks (and some studies indicate that Delhi may have the worst air in the world).  And each of these countries has historically depended in important ways on the great rivers flowing out of the Himalayas (fed by glacier melt) (such as the Ganges, the Yangtze,and the Mekong River in Southeast Asia), which will likely be seriously disrupted by global warming at a time when food must still be grown for their very large populations.

There are also some important differences between the two countries, in my experience.  Though sometimes at great human cost, and enabled by top-down decision-making, China has developed economically faster than has India.  Today the income per person (taking purchasing power into account) is around $51,000 dollars in the U.S., $11,500 in China (U.S. collars), but only $5,200 in India.  China has made much more progress in eliminating widespread and deep poverty.  Economic inequality has grown in both countries, as has the emergence of a middle class and a super-rich elite, but the "floor" under the resources for everyday life is higher in China than in India, overall.  When I was in India, visiting schools for the poor, teachers spoke of how much weight their small students lost over longer school breaks when they weren't getting their daily dal and chapati lunches; anemia among pregnant women in India is a serious problem for many.  Our group in India was far more likely to encounter people begging for money in India than I was in China (I only saw two people asking for money in China, who were physically disabled and sitting outside the gate to a temple).

Some of the economic differences between the two countries is reflected in the urban architecture and buildings we saw in China.  In the photo to the right, Barbara is on the roof of one of the more recent, and very fancy, urban shopping malls in Guangzhou (in which almost every store featured a particular luxury good, such as Gucci, or Prada--and likely the "real thing" rather than a knock-off).  To be sure, there are some nice malls and fancy stores in India, but those we saw reflected a more middle-class clientele, similar to better U.S. shopping malls.

One evening, after enjoying supper with a local Chinese family (whose daughter was translating for Barbara's class), we went walking along the Pearl River (with many young Chinese folks getting out into the cooling air, or just hanging out). We were reminded of the very innovative architecture in parts of Shanghai when we were there with students in 2004.  And we were impressed by the quality of the many museums we visited, as well as the subway systems (more impressive than the admittedly older systems we've experienced in U.S. cities).

Another difference (one which is intertwined with economic inequalities) is in health and illness, especially as it affects women and children in poor areas in rural areas and cities alike in India.  Poorer pregnant women in India are more likely to be anemic and underweight; a significant portion of poor children in India show stunted growth.  This may reflect access to nutritious food, but also to vulnerability to disease; in India, about half the population does not use toilets or latrines, but becomes vulnerable to illness or parasites when relieving themselves outside.  And girls still have less access to education than boys, though India's young middle-class women are going to university in large numbers, as we saw in 2014 (see photo below).

China is also becoming an "older" society much faster than India.  With greater success in ending mass poverty, people in China are living longer; at the same time, both the now-ending one-child policy and the more rapidly urbanizing population have lowered the birth rates in China faster than seen in India (where birth rates have also been falling, but more slowly).  This is compounded by the shortage of women in the population noted above, further reinforced by greater equality in education and employment for women in China both of which tend to lead women to choose to have fewer and later children.  Articles in local newspapers in China, when we were there, talked about the problems soon to confront China as an "aging" society (as Japan is also experiencing), with too few young people to support an elder population (and  several sets of grandparents sharing a single grandchild).

I'll mention one other difference (though this post is getting longer than planned!), the significant differences in the politics of China and India.  India is often termed the "world's largest democracy," and elections there have in fact resulted in the replacement of one ruling party by another (one "bottom-line" test?).  Yet it's also a complicated country to govern, with dozens of different regional languages and ethnic groups, and the current ruling party reflects a rise in "Hindu nationalism" in a place with a large Muslim minority (the second-largest Muslim population in the world after Indonesia).

China, with its one-party, top-down political system, has been more effective in creating economic and urban development, lifting many out of poverty, yet doing so at what we're learning has been great cost to the environment as well as real participation in decision making by ordinary people.  In both countries, ironically, we see the rise of a small, super-rich layer at the very top, with disproportionate wealth and influence.

China's political dilemma (whether providing a rising standard of living can continue to offset the lack of real democratic participation in the way that Westerners would usually understand it)
was evident in a particular way in Hong Kong.  The British returned Hong Kong to China in 1997, but the details of what Hong Kong will be remain uncertain.  Hong Kong is particularly affluent (and still has its own currency), and is a key link to the world economy for China; on the other hand, many of its people expect greater democratic representation than Beijing has usually allowed.

The current form this different understanding of political participation takes is whether Hong Kong people can choose those who will govern the area, or will be limited in their choice to a slate chosen by the central government.  When Barbara was in Hong Kong last September, tens of thousands of people protested Beijing's plans, shutting down parts of the city, and the issue came to a head once again just before we left.  In a messy election, the Hong Kong "city council" voted down Beijing's proposal, leaving the matter to be resolved in the future, but just before the vote I visited the "tent camp" where some protestors had been living since the fall (see the photo above and to the left, which shows the library of books donated by local residents, as well as a yellow umbrella, symbolic of what has come to be called the "yellow umbrella" movement).  A number of people there were preparing for protests just before the vote, and I got some sense for how passionately some local people feel about somehow creating a democratic enclave in a larger Chinese system that has a very different understanding about what representation would mean.

I've only had limited experience in China and India, and here I've shared some concluding impressions.  I'm not sure what the future will bring to the people there, but I feel a fondness for those whom we've met, who've welcomed us with more hospitality than perhaps expected, and shared their lives with us.  They have hopes and dreams, as well as challenges and frustrations, and Barbara and I would like to return someday to learn more about their lives and stories.  And to share more food!  (In the photo below, we see some of Barbara's students and co-workers on the last day of class in Hong Kong around a large round table--holding all 16 of us, with continually-arriving dishes for us to share!)  Bruce

Some further ramblings about life in China

 Our reflections about China are perhaps towards an end, but not our memories.  Part of our experience was simply being in a very different part of the world with its own history and culture, but also ecologically and its own climate cycles.  Among other things, while Minneapolis is at 45 degrees latitude north (almost exactly half way to the north pole), Hong Kong is only 22 degrees north--twice as close to the equator, with a sub-tropical climate and birds and vegetation and (sometimes hugs) trees to match.  Here's Barbara with local plants not usually seen in Minnesota!

While southern China doesn't seem to get the kind of "true" monsoon season (with weeks of heavy rains) more common in south and southeast Asia (India, Thailand, and so forth), we did often experience pouring rains (as in the photo below), and we (like local folks) got used to carrying our umbrellas.  This was often refreshing, breaking the buildup of warm (or warmer) air heavy with moisture, and dramatic.

   On the other hand, daylight was actually less than in Minnesota at this summer solstice time of year.  As one gets closer to the equator, the sun is higher, but the days are actually shorter than in latitudes farther north and south; the "midnight sun" happens in Oslo but not in Hong Kong.

As we've noted, we found the metro or subway systems in both Hong Kong and Guangzhou to be great ways to get around--inexpensive, clean, well-organized, quick, and as an added benefit, great for people-watching.  People of all ages and backgrounds tend to take the trains (though we were usually the only Westerners in sight).  I (Bruce) found them to be the only place where I saw PDA's (public displays of affection) happening, though only among teenage couples, and never (in my experience) kissing, but usually a couple sitting closely, holding hands, or sometimes a boy with his arms around his apparent girlfriend.
   There are often shopping areas, even fancy malls, next to or over subway stations, and these seem to draw young people in the later afternoon when schools are getting out and teenage appetites for a snack are once again reaching a peak.  The photo below shows one such scene, with groups (often all girls or all boys) grabbing a table, from which they can scope out passers-by and check out who's with whom (my guess!).

This kind of scene might look pretty familiar--the setting, the fast-food (though often the menu is more Chinese than Western), and the Western-style clothing (usually made in China, I think, as is most of our own "Western" clothing--or from elsewhere in south or southeastern Asia).  But it struck me how different this scene was from similar ones I experienced in urban India (2014), where it's far more common for schoolgirls to wear some variation on traditional Indian clothing, usually something more colorful and more modest (though Chinese girls are more modest in their clothing than schoolgirls in the U.S., I think).

I sometimes wondered what the lives and hopes of young Chinese people, teen-agers, might be like.  I had the impression that education is important, and important for girls as well as boys (based partly on the perhaps superficial sense that there seemed to be as many girls in their school uniforms as boys on the trains and in the shopping areas).  But education in China does seem important.  The annual "gaokao" exams taken by high school students to determine who will be able to attend university, or postpone college for a year, or be encouraged to find a job rather than study further, were taking place while we were there, the subject of much television news coverage (it's an important but also a very stressful time for the students).
 
But, too, young people face questions about relationships, and the kind of person they might want to marry, and what relationships are like, and the role of both economic resources and one's personal "looks" in shaping those relationships.  In the photo above we see what is likely one vision (in a large advertising poster seen in the subways) of what a modern Chinese woman, and man, would be like--attractive, but also in a rather "Western" way (note the woman's hair style, and the non-Chinese style teapot and teacups).  They are slim, and are looking at one another rather than eating the tempting (Western) tea-cakes (she has no food on the fork she is holding).  And she is light-skinned (other ads, and whole shops in up-scale malls, are devoted to skin care products which "lighten" or even simply "whiten" one's skin, sometimes promising to change one's life.  What do young people do with such things (a dilemma not entirely unlike those faced by teenagers contemplating the dilemmas of changing gender and relationship roles in the U.S.)?

Some (most?) will marry, like the young couple in the photo here. (Note: this was taken when when I was strolling through a park where three or four couples were having their wedding photos taken, while lots of local people passed by and watched the proceedings--I wasn't intruding on an actual wedding here.)  Many seem to still live at home with parents until they do marry.  Many will likely want to have a child, though while the "one-child" restriction is now being relaxed, the high cost of urban living may still lead many to feel that having just one child is best.

Over the last generation, the one-child policy has meant that grandparents often have only one grandchild--and a grandchild they may share with another set of grandparents.  China is in fact aging, as an increasingly well-off population lives longer, but also as fewer children have been born.  Yet families are still important, as I saw in several contexts: when wandering about my neighborhood in Guangzhou, where I often saw grandparents taking care of a grandchild, often just a doting grandpa with his grandchild.  We see in the photo to the right an extended family in a park in Guangzhou.  And I could see it when we had supper with the family of one of the local people we got to know in Guangzhou, in their concerns for a grown daughter who'd moved out without marrying.

What might China be like as it becomes, demographically, more like Japan, with a population that "leans older" rather than younger?  Who will help take care of the older, who may also be disproportionately women, as we see in this photo (who seemed to be happily chatting and enjoying one another's company--my impression is that China is still a place where social gatherings are still more gender-defined and homogenous).  Note that several of the women are in wheelchairs, and I saw that newly-built facilities like the subways seem to be "accessible" even though few people with physical limits were to be seen there.

I should end here.  We'll let you know when we reach the real end of our postings, and if you've read this far, you have our appreciation and thanks!

Bruce

Guangzhou and thoughts from Barbara

My brief encounters with China, both the mainland and Hong Kong, leave me with more questions than answers.  When I try to think of images or metaphors for my experiences, what emerges is a sense of polarities--opposites that somehow co-exist, ancient and modern (sometimes embracing the aspects of modernity that I am most uncomfortable with, as an American); a place of great hospitality and also challengingly inaccessible (both literally-as in getting around in Guangzhou and also getting a sense of what it means to be Chinese- carrying the long and complex history of this land); where pockets of unbelievably green, quiet and idyllic spaces are hidden inside the immense buildings and noisy masses of people that are the public faces of both of these cities.  It is a place of rich complexity, inviting further exploration and open minded curiosity.

Guangzou, what was called Canton in the west, is the third largest city in China. That means it is unbelievably large, over 12 million people. Like a kaleidescope, our walks would take us through ever-change small neighborhoods. In one direction we would arrive at the Pearl River, towered over by the Canton Tower (complexly laticed in the day time and brightly colored at night). Near by are tall pricey high-rises, sitting next to older, smaller and more worn apartment buildings.















In another direction, there's a busy side street, with small single family restaurants, each serving a different type of food, a store selling ancient Chinese instruments, a drug store, multiple clothing stores and several car repair garages-all side by side.  As people of all ages walk on non-existant sidewalks they are passed by large public busses, swerving taxis, bicycles and motorbikes often lugging large loads. Somehow no one gets hit, not even the animals that scrounge for food.

There are open-air markets, with sections for vegetables, fruits and another aisle where you can get meat or fish cut, scaled and wrapped up for you to take home for dinner. Everywhere bustles, and because it is summer and hot and humid, large fans blow air around from every direction. I am surprised that, despite being at a similar latitude to northern Thailand and Laos, the range of green vegetable don't seem to include the aromatic greens that flavor foods a bit further south west.

Fruits, on the other hand are amazing in their variety and non-westernness.   We are in this region during the peak of longan season. In Hong Kong I learn that there are at least two different kinds of longans... one a beautiful prickly red-green skinned fruit, the size of a ping pong ball..that is peeled to reveal a translucent white fruit with a large black seed. (see lower left corner of the photo below).

It is incredibly beautiful and tastes a bit like a custardy pear-apple. The harsh, spiney outer layer filled with something sweet and softly sensual is yet another paradox. The other type  of longan is yellow green and slightly less bitter. I am told by one of the students in Hong Kong that the red longan is a hot fruit and that if we eat more than 4, we will get too energized and excited. The other type of longan is apparently fine to eat by  the cart load. Also, I note that tomatoes seem to be considered a fruit..or perhaps this particular vendor organized her wares by shape and color.

Each corner of the city has a different feel, the city center (or CBD- commercial business district as they call it) is crowded, noisy, filled with tall architecturally impossible buildings. The western side of the city is older, more walkable and has an entire street dedicated to opulent but afordable dim sum tea houses.

Street scene in Western section of Guangzhou

When one of my students takes us to a particulary lovely one (the best dim sum I have ever had-ever!!!) I am relieved to see people hanging out and enjoying themselves. Prior to this, I had been struck by the absense of places to sit and talk with friends, or just to think. No tea houses (even Starbuck, which is everywhere, didn't have many people hanging out), and most people seem to eat quickly, bowls close to their mouths and chop sticks moving at lightning speed.











It is a delight to see families, friends, grandmothers with grandchildren or young couples taking their time to enjoy tea and dim sum.

My students in Guangzhou are wonderful. On one hand they are open and willing to learn and experience new approaches and concepts, and on the other hand proud of their own culture. As I teach them American approaches to psychology, therapy and dance/movement therapy, I wrestle with what is relevant for their world and culture, and what is just a western or American lens on the world. I am also inspired by the instinctive grasp of the metaphors implicit in all that I am teaching, and also at their hunger for unstructured creative expression. I often feel that I have as much (or more) to learn from them as they want to learn from me.  I am struck by the importance of marriage and children for all of my students (many older students are already mothers, some with several children because they fall into a category such as coming from a "non-elite" background that allows them to have more than one child). Their curiosity and excitement in class is also balanced by the constant horrific news of the tour boat that had recently capsized in the Yangtze river, at the loss of over 450 older Chinese people. (While this was often the main focus of the news when we were in Guangzhou, we barely heard any updates once we entered Hong Kong).

Next entry- Hong Kong!

Hong Kong - I shop therefore I am !!!

Hong Kong, is a different place.. still big and crowded but showing its roots as a British colony and a major economic port to the west. Despite its size, I am struck by the order and rules that are constantly present. As we take the easy-to- navigate subway (the MTR) we are surounded by signs and announcements to 'cover our mouths when coughing or sneezing', 'hold the hand rails on escalators' (which are sanitized frequently), 'not to run', 'hold children's hands' and more. There are ads that seem to suggest that 'good riders' get prizes (from a short guy with large glasses..who is handing a trophy to a grandmotherly looking person and a young boy). 

Here too, nature and urban worlds overlap. Buildings are tall and thin--huge despite being painted pastel colors of pink, blue or green. We take the tram up to the top of Victoria peak, and suddenly it is green and lush, with walking trails galore (it is too hot and humid to actually walk them, but they are there, none the less).

The nunnery that Bruce talks about is hidden below a multilevel 'freeway' and across the street from a huge modern shoppping mall (the "Hollywood Plaza" mall..complete with designer stores, restaurants, a movie theater an a grocery store). On our last afternoon, we take the subway to the Heritage Museum (learning about traditional Cantonese Opera, Bruce Lee, and the boat and fishing culture of the original inhabitants of the Hong Kong region). As we exit from the subway station and cross the street we are suddenly surrounded by trees and crossing a bridge across a wide flowing river. Returning to town, we are back at the Hollywood mall in 15 minutes. 

The subway system is orderly too. In all of our explorations, at different times of the day, we never had to wait more than about 5 minutes for a train.  Often we would arrive at our transfer station and the next train would be waiting for us to cross the platform and then leave. Inside the subway, in addition to letting  you know what station is the next stop, signs also let you know what other stations you can connect with at that stop and which door will open for you to exit.  We were often the only people noticing the wonders of the train systems, as everyone else was focused on their cell phone (with ear buds so they would not disturb anyone). If they weren't checking email or news, they would be playing some sort of computer game (day dreaming or looking around at other rides is apparently not the cultural norm here).

Another sight is Lion's Peak, a vocanic rock outcropping that looks like a Lion's head from many angles. We saw it mentioned in several museums and it seems to be a symbol of the fierceness of the people of Hong Kong.  

And they are fierce and independent too. I will watch with great curiousity as the marriage of Hong Kong and mainland China matures. Right now they are not getting along very well. For example my Hong Kong students tended to not want to go to Guangzhou- I suspect none of them had ever been there, despite it's proximity (a short 2 hour train ride). Meanwhile, several of the Guangzhou students, who were in the Hong Kong class seemed to imply that it was hard for them to travel to Hong Kong. This was not something I ever asked them about directly, but I wonder about the deeper layers of how the people of these two cities relate.  As a group, while both classes were wonderful to work with, they definitely had different personalities. 

An interesting coincidence for me was that both times I was teaching in Hong Kong there were some political issues also occurring. Last September, the big local issue was concern about the voting process and how much was being controlled by Beijing. During one lunch, students talked about their concerns that they were being asked to choose from a preselected list of candidates, and I left just as the Occupy movement was gathering steam. Photos of yellow umbrellas and interviews of Occupy participants filled the news as I was preparing to leave. This time, the actual vote to accept or reject Bejing's voting plan occurred. In fact, as the class was enjoying a final group dim sum lunch, the vote was actually occurring.. and the broacast on TV (on a big flat-screen on the wall above our table) almost dominated our eating. (It was a rapid vote to reject the plan, in part due to a misguided walk out by the pro-Beijing side. They had been hoping that their leaving would result in a postponement of the vote. Instead not enough people left, so the vote occurred and the anti-proposal majority won. )

One last thought for this entry: I was interested to see many people actively involved in an older Taoist practice, that of fortune telling. Often at some of the Taoist temples, there would be a rattling sound from a corner of the temple.  The sounds would be from people who were vigorously shaking a can of large sticks as they knealt on the ground; others would also be praying prior to shaking out their fortune.  Eventually a stick would fall out of the jar, and they would take it to a nearby fortune reader, who would tell them the answer to the question they had been praying about. Perhaps next time I am here, I will see what my fortune will be.

Fortune telling sticks at a Hong Kong temple

Religion and Faith in a "Post-religious" Society

Has a belief in communist philosophy and politics replaced more traditional religious belief in China today?  Has religious practice been pushed aside by the pursuit of new lives as people move from the countryside to the fast-growing cities, with hopes for upward social mobility and more affluent, comfortable lives?  Or, for a variety of people and groups, does religious practice still provide a source of meaning, hope, community, and identity?

Answering these questions is, I (Bruce) have to admit, quite beyond my ability.  But we often kept running into some form of religious practice while in both Guangzhou and Hong Kong, and that raised questions for us about the role of religion in people's lives today.  Sometimes this happened while visiting Taoist temples, some centuries old, some relatively new.

At the Sik Sik Yuen Wong Tai Sin Temple in Kowloon (part of the Hong Kong area), actually a collection of temples which bustle with activity, one portion offers single people the chance to offer prayers with hopes for a possible mate and marriage.  The center figure is a Taoist priest who would conduct a ceremony, with a rope to the left (unseen in this photo) to the figure of a bride, and a rope to the right to the figure of a groom.  One gets a foot-long segment of red thread to tie onto the appropriate side.

I couldn't help notice that young women were more likely to be seeking help in finding a husband than vice-versa, judging by the relative amount of threads tied to each side (and by whom I saw doing prayers here, while I sat nearby).  Are women more religious?  More concerned about finding a husband, in spite of the fact that urban women are now often quite educated and usually able to work for pay?  More concerned about finding a good man, perhaps one with fewer traditional expectations on what a wife will be like?  (One should remember, too, that a legacy of China's one-child policy, combined with a preference for having a son, has meant a shortage of marriageable women for those men seeking a wife, which should lead men to be the ones needing extra help in finding a spouse!)  Perhaps what's significant for the moment is that at least some young people still do seek a source of help finding a partner than is different than "Match.com."

Local people visiting the temple discussed above, and the Che Kung Temple shown to the right, were a mixture of those who came to pray at one of the altars, perhaps petitioning higher spirits for their personal needs, and those who arrived on tour busses to see these more well-known temples.  Yet even the "tourists" appeared to be local people (or visitors from other nearby parts of China?); Barbara and I were usually the only "Western/white" folks around, and the temples didn't seem to be "tourist attractions" in a narrow sense.  Perhaps some folks were visiting in a spirit similar to some who visit Notre Dame or Chartres in France, with a mixture of seeing the sights and a degree of religious awe or curiosity.  Many of the visitors to the Taoist temples did buy incense/joss sticks with which to offer their prayers, and then took "selfies" of themselves with their friends.  I was often left with more questions and curiosity than answers! But it did seem that, for many visitors to the temples, there was at least some "religious" intent for their visit.  And the temples weren't necessarily old relics, leftovers from past times--the first one above was build in 1973 (!).

 We also visited some Buddhist sites, such as temples or nunneries.  At the Buddhist temple on the left, in Guangzhou, there were a number of local people offering prayers at one of the altars in a complex dominated by the seven-level pagoda seen here.  When I visited again on my own (when Barbara was teaching her class), I peeked through a door into a large hall where people were gathering (including a number of Buddhist monks and nuns, as well as local practitoners), and a woman sent out her young daughter (with some English) to invite me in to join.  I sat down, though a few minutes later the daughter came up and said her mom thought it would be better if I were sitting with the other men instead of the women (whoops--hadn't noticed!  and even though I have gotten quite comfortable "sitting with the women," in this case, as in other settings calling for certain gender traditions, it seemed respectful to move).  The chanting followed a repetitive pattern, going through a printed pattern over and over for several hours.  I appreciated the chance to be part of that.
 

Near the subway stop where Barbara was teaching in Hong Kong was a Buddhist nunnery (the Chi Lin Nunnery), which I visited several times.  It seemed to attract a variety of visitors (both the nunnery buildings themselves and the gardens, part of which are seen to the right), but there were also local people who were there to pray at one of the four main altars, each with beautiful images of Buddha and various bodhisattvas.  Among other things, it seemed to be a place of peace and rest in the midst of a very urbanizing area (much of it 30-40 story apartment buildings, as seen here).

 As Barbara's noted earlier, we also visited several masjids (mosques) in both Guangzhou and Hong Kong.  In the photo to the left, we are sitting on the porch of the prayer hall at a mosque which is in an old temple (the pagoda has been converted into the minaret, from which the call to prayer is given!).  "Moon" is with us, who translated for Barbara's class but was also generous with her time on other occasions as well; she enjoyed the sound of the call to prayer we could hear from inside, as local Muslim men arrived to pray.  Note that Barbara has put on the modest clothing for a visit to the mosque as we've learned is appropriate in our several times in  the Middle East.  (Note, too, the monsoon-level rains seen in the background!)  Muslims are an important part of the Chinese population in some parts of the country; those at this mosque seemed more likely to be newer immigrants.  Barbara and Moon had a good conversation with the women who'd come to pray in the women's area before we reconnected outside once again.

In Hong Kong, we visited the Jamia Masjid (seen at the right), established around 1915.  Hong Kong had become a British colony about half a century earlier, in connection with the Opium Wars (Britain had been pushing opium sales to the Chinese, who resisted it), and as we learned the Muslims at this mosque were from South Asia (India and what is now Pakistan and Bangladesh had been British colonies), rather than Turkic Muslims historically living in what is now western China.  Some were also from Malaya (now Malaysia), also British in those days.  One man we talked with was born in India, lived in Canada (part of the British Commonwealth) for some time, and was now in Hong Kong for work.

All of this history reminded us that sorting out religious practice and its meaning in China today is complicated by colonial histories and the modern movement of peoples as China's economy booms.  For Muslims, faithful practice seems a matter of identity and community as well as belief.

 There is also an important presence of Christianity in China.  Some goes back centuries to missionary efforts which paralleled Western efforts to establish economic ties and political influence with parts of Asia.  In southern China where we were, efforts to convert the Chinese seemed to be associated with the British presence beginning in the 19th century (following earlier Portuguese efforts).  To the left we see Barbara and Moon in front of the Stone Church (the large wooden doors), a cathedral built in a central square in Guangzhou over a period of several decades; there are regular services there, in several languages.

Recent immigration from sub-Saharan Africa, in connection I think with China's relatively recent but significant involvement in several countries there, has also brought both Muslims and Christians from Africa to Guangzhou.  I spent part of a day in the neighborhood where many have settled, and from posters had the impression that African-style evangelical Protestant churches were important for part of the immigrant population.

 In Hong Kong, I spent some time at St. Andrew's Cathedral (Anglican), seen in the photo to the right.  One Sunday I went to two services, one in English (at which many attenders seemed to be women from the Philippines, many who have come as domestic workers caring for the children and homes of relatively affluent Hong Kong Chinese residents).  I also went to the Mandarin service (with Chinese officiants and a Mandarin choir) (there is also a Cantonese service).  In the church materials, I noticed that there was an outreach both to domestic workers and to migrant workers who do construction, with a focus on Filipinos.  (Filipino immigrants, along with Malaysians and Indonesians, seem to be an important part of the low-income workers who, as in the U.S., provide people to do the work which Chinese residents may no longer need or want to do.)

One sign of the Filipina domestic workers is their gatherings on weekends, usually Sundays (when they would have a day off, at least in Hong Kong).  We've seen groups gathered in the public parks, or on benches along walkways, to visit, share food, perhaps to fix one another's hair.  These are women who might often live in the house where they work, and so seeing one another one day a week seems to be an important time to find support.  In this photo, we see one of many groups of women (often about a dozen each) singing church songs in informal worship (in English--the Philippines was a U.S. colony until after World War II, and English has been a common second language, which also makes these women attractive as domestics to a Chinese population which also often has English as a second language as a British colony until 1997, when Hong Kong was returned to Chinese control).  Some of the songs, in themes and tone, reminded me of "praise songs" at the evangelical churches I studied during my last sabbatical.

I conclude this post with a photo of the tai chi group whose several score "members" met daily in the morning near our hotel, as it seems at least partly to be a spiritual practice.  I spent some time one morning doing my best to do the moves, after Barbara and I had had breakfast and she had zoomed off to class.  (I stayed on the edge, in the back, uncertain what I was doing, but several folks smiled at me in encouragement, or perhaps amusement.)  Nearly everyone seemed to be 50+, likely retirees, as I'm slowly beginning to see myself as after finishing my last semester at St. Olaf this spring.  It's not a bad way to start a day!

I don't know that I've answered my own questions here about the role of religion in China.  For many Chinese it may be outmoded, at the side of the road to modernity and success.  Some do seem to take religious practice seriously.  It may be a matter of faith, or a matter of need, or both.  And for some it's also the container for their sense of identity, and community.

All for now.  Bruce

Back home, but still writing a few more posts!

Greetings once again, this time from Minneapolis.  Thank you for continuing to read our ramblings from, or at least about, China!  We found ourselves busy enough that we weren't able to share what we'd like while still half a world away, and so will do a few more postings here from home.

 Barbara wrote earlier about her classes, and will perhaps add more, but I include two related photos here for the moment.  The first was the one to the left, welcoming her to the dance studio where she would be teaching in Guangzhou.  Even though this was the second time she's taught there, helping to train local folks who want to explore one of Barbara's primary fields of expertise ("dance movement therapy"), it was great to see the "welcome" sign.

Barbara's students were more diverse than the usual college-age students whom we've often taught--some were relatively young and inexperienced, but others are already practicing therapists or have college or advanced degrees and want to move in some new directions.  As in Estonia (2011), Barbara has been helping to introduce a new direction in doing therapy that's not yet common in the country, yet intriguing for a number of people.

To the right, we see the beginning of Barbara's first day of class.  In this photo she's greeting some new students (some she'd also taught last September during her first visit).  When I (Bruce) teach it's in a conventional classroom, but here we see a very open space, a dance studio with an empty floor and no chairs or desks which for me invites an even greater openness to new experience, to moving as well as thinking in new ways.  Anything might happen!  And, of course, the cultural setting (China) also heightens that chance, since the students will bring values and experiences to bear as yet unknown.


We saw this in a different setting when one of Barbara's invited us to go for "dim sum" at a lovely and traditional restaurant.  We were familiar with dim sum--ordering several different "small bites" dishes, making the sampling of a variety of dishes tempting and easy.  But first, we "washed the dishes"!  A large pot of hot water is on the table, and we pour some into our small bowls and teacups, stir our Chinese style soup spoons and chopsticks in the water, and pour the remaining hot water into a large bowl on the table which the waitress would later whisk away.  Only then would we pour the first cups of tea from a teapot (into which loose tea had been added); additional hot water would be added to the pot as the meal proceeded, the tea gradually changing in strength (and even flavor?).  Towards the end of our time in China, when going to a dim sum place on our own, we saw the waitress watching as we "washed the dishes" ourselves, then smile with approval that we seemed to know (more or less) what we were doing.  (It reminded me of the time when we were in Morocco [2009] having Friday lunch with the local family we were staying with, and the older man smiled in approval when Barbara [finally!] began to put choice morsels from the common platter onto my plate as a "good wife" should.)

 There are also many other situations where "local knowledge" takes a while to learn.  One is that one passes on-coming people on the left, rather than the right (parallel to driving patterns, presumably from Western practice, especially in Hong Kong).  I was often almost running into people when walking until I learned to let them pass me on my right, rather than being on the right side.  Escalators are laid out that way as well--you take the escalator to your left rather than to your right.  On the subway itself, it may be gracious to accept the offer of someone's seat if you are an older person (like me).

It's also considered appropriate to queue properly (something that seems to have changed since when I was last in big-city China in 2004?) when getting tickets or waiting for the subway.  There are clearly-marked places for people to line up where each subway door will be once the train stops, and a young subway worker will often be there to help you stand in the right place.  This is also facilitated by the fact that the tracks aren't "open"--there is a glass wall the entire length of the stop, with sliding doors that don't open until the train has come to a halt, as well as the train doors themselves (no danger of falling onto the tracks!).

And, of course, there are other things to learn--such as passing something to someone with both hands rather than one (and they will accept it with both hands as well, as the person taking the little coupons for breakfast at our hotels would do).  All interesting!  And who knows what else we may have overlooked?

All for now.  We will write a few more times.  I'll end with a lotus flower at a Buddhist nunnery.  (Bruce)

From Barbara- thoughts on the day before we leave HK

Nie Hau to all of you (excuse the Mandarin...they actually speak a different dialect of Chinese in Hong Kong..which I have not been able to learn easily... not that I am doing any better in Mandarin...however, HK, due to its British colonial past has much more English and English speakers than Guangzhou.)

It has been a whirlwind three weeks, Bruce exploring a huge range of amazing sights while I have been getting to know my students and teaching. Both wonderful in different ways. I have particularly enjoyed the depth of connections I have made teaching...as well as the opportunity to begin to get a sense of Guangzhou (Mainland, southeastern China) and Hong Kong culture. Both are rich and multilayered...and there is so much more to learn and see.  But first thoughts about the classes. Teaching the students in both of my classes has been a wonderful experience.  They are open and curious and fearless.  They grasp the topics on such a profoud and metaphoric level, in a way that is different from most of my Minnesotan students. We talk about energy and balance and how who we are as individuals relate to the earth, and culture and each other. Conversations are moving a profound.  Last September, when I was here for the first time, I worried that moving would be scary or hard for many, that they would be shy and not share their experiences with others or would not bring themselves fully to the learning process. Happily I have found this to not be the case at all. We have amazing conversations about western versus Chinese views of the body and movement. We discuss how each of our cultures hold harmful views of the body and how as 'grown ups and parents' it is hard to balance cultural values with the hopes and dreams we all hold for the children.  I will miss my students and hope I get to see them in the future.

Despite teaching alot, I have also had many wonderful adventures in my free time (which is not extensive, since teaching all day for several days in a row can get pretty tiring). In Hong Kong, Bruce and I explored Hong Kong Island. The waterfront is massive and filled with towering financial buildings (fitting of HK being such an central financial center of the world) that sparkle with lights shows in the evening.  But moving towards the center of the island, it becomes more varies and human.  We took the peak tram to the top of Victoria Peak to orient ourselves, before we descended to explore a few neighborhoods. (At the top of the peak, you can either hike to various trains down (not much fun in the hot humid weather) or shop at the multilayered mall that is also at the top of the peak.  HK is all about consuming- malls sit side by side almost everywhere. Shops range from fancy designer stores to inexpensive 'faux' designer items.  When people talk they often talk about getting somethig that is a good deal, e.g. cheap but high quality... and the shops are always full of people.)

After the peak we took a huge outdoor escalator, like a moving sidewalk to other areas of HK. We visited a small mosque, and arrived in time for prayer (only men no women were in view).

From there we walked to an old synagogue... Ohel Leah.. Founded by Moroccan Jews (the Sasson family) and almost invisible from the street with no signs. (The clue that it was there at all was a tall beefy man with an ear bud, standing by a fence.  I thought, hmm a good clue to the location of many synagogues we have visited in other countries has been semi-unobtrusive armed guards nearby. Hong Kong was no exception. I stopped to ask him where the synagogue was, as Bruce looked on- confused as to why I might accost this random man in the street. He asked some of the normal questions- "Where are you from?", "How long had we been in Hong Kong?" "Why were we visiting? and the big one: "Why do you want to see the synagogue?" After which he directed us to the entry door to an entire Jewish Community Center. Few people were around but we did see the inside of the synagogue.

We have also visited many Taoist temples (often dedicated to the goddess of the sea)..filled with giant incense spirals, plus several huge statues of the god or goddess to whom the temple was dedicated. Entering it would be hot, dark, filled with incense smoke, energetically blowing fans and a few older women caretakers collecting a few HK dollars for three sticks of incense. Often there are also a few people of all ages, bowing and praying briefly, before continuing with their day.  

So much more to say... but we have one more day to explore before heading home. Food has been great... Cantonese food is not spicy but focuses on the clean taste of each ingredient.  We have had some amazing meals and often preceeded by lots of pointing and guessing as we try to negotiate the language differences.  Guangzhou also deserves its own section (and will get a future blog entry). Other random thoughts... both cities have amazingly efficient transportation..and easy to negotiate. In HK, subways (called the MTR) are clean, fast, and we rarely have to wait more than 2 minutes to a connection, no matter how crowded it is during rush hour. In Guangzhou we were more likely to be offered seats (as older looking persons)...than in HK... and in HK we were often the only ones NOT on our cell phone... OK to be continued... off we go to explore a bit more.